National Trust encourage Flickr members to breach their own rules regarding T&C of images taken on properties ...
anonymous
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National Trust encourage Flickr members to breach their own rules regarding T&C of images taken on properties ...

"Any use of images beyond your own private and personal use is considered commercial photography, so even if no fees are generated by the usage, reproduction or distribution of the images beyond your own private or domestic use is prohibited."

This is a very widely drawn policy.

After all it cannot be said that the public photographs of NT properties on this forum or Flickr are purely "private or domestic."

Posting of an image marked as public on Flickr constitutes a form of usage, reproduction or distribution.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/nationaltrust/discuss/72157603485765743/


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anonymous
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I think the first quote was in a reply to an email one of the group members received from the NT and I did see that the comments regarding this were ignored by the representative of NT posting in the forum.

I also see that the 'Group Admin' also doesn't seem concerned about the issue!, or chooses to ignore it, and in fact encourages one user to add tags relating to the NT, and is a photographer! himself.

I did quickly visit their PL! and of interest (to me anyway) was this:

"Model and Property releases

i. NTPL gives no representations or warranties whatsoever as to the existence of any Release associated with the image
ii. NTPL gives no representations or warranties whatsoever with respect to the use of names, trademarks, logos, uniforms, registered or copyrighted designs or works of art depicted in the Image
iii. You must satisfy yourself that all necessary rights, consents or permissions as may be required for Reproduction of the Image have been secured."

Strange T&Cs from a PL of an organisation the size of the NT.

But maybe this is unrelated and should be moved/edited as the Moderators see fit.

Regards

Leon

tony
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The NT are of course famous for trying to control photography of Durdle Door, a huge natural rock formation on the Dorset coast.

My little run-in with them concerned Chedworth Roman villa in Gloucs. I was travelling with a journalist working on a feature for a motorcycle magazine about Britain's historic roads - in this case the Fosse Way - and the interesting places along them that were worth visiting, and we made the mistake of wanting to take a photo of the villa. We paid the admission fee and wandered around. There were no signs saying 'no photography', but when I took a photo (35mm SLR, handheld, no tripod, lights, models or breakfast wagon) a very agitated warden approached and asked what I was doing. I explained. Oh, no, you can't, not without prior arrangement with the press office. Can I call the press offiice then? Stay there!

He found the number and that's what I did. They wanted several hundred quid - I think £300 though I'm hazy now - and at least a week's notice.

The conversation went : but I am here, it is out of the question for us to go 150mls back to London and come back in a week, this is for a single small pic within a magazine feature for which the entire budget is what you're asking. Do you understand we are publicising the location to encourage visitors so we are doing the NT's marketing for you? surely that is OK? Nope. You must apply in writing, it will take 3-5 days.

So I told the warden the outcome, said it was ridiculous, but I would go and do a worse photo from the public road instead. And that's what I did, being pursued by a red-faced NT warden screaming (literally) that the NT would be sueing me. The mediocre pic ran smaller with less copy and the NT got less exposure than they would have done.

Of course the real reason for all this control freakery is the National Trust Picture Library and the revenue they get from it. Having looked at it recently, they had no suitable photos anyway. In fact what they do have is abysmal.

Unfortunately the NT, a registered charity, owns a large proportion of historic sites, coastline and places of natural beauty. Their policy is an attempt at monopoly and a major problem for anyone trying to make a living from landscape photography.

Another issue is that the NT appears to change the rules to suit itself. 15-20 years ago before the entire country went lawyer crazy, permissions were usually informal and verbal. I've seen reports that libraries containing images of NT locations from that period have recently been threatened with legal action if they cannot prove the photographer had permission.

Regards / Tony ©A moderator

martinc
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Where does the first quote come from? (the one beginning, "Any use of images beyond..")

Kind regards

Martin Cameron

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